The 0-60 metric is grossly overrated

"KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time" (kngt) 07/08/2020 at 16:05 • Filed to: 0-60, zero to sixty, 0 to 60 eventually

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In the real world I care more about 0-45 times for my suburban Costco runs because I neither have, nor deploy launch control at every stop light.

I was reading this, and 100% agree-

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Passing power based on gearing, mid-range torque matters more for me 30-50, 50-70. That is why my next vehicle will most likely have a turbo

OK, even if you want a consistent benchmark, 5-60(1 ft rollout) is more realistic. If you’re looking at sports cars for bragging rights, sure! But it will not dictate my next vehicle purchase- 6.5 or 7.5 is negligible in the real world.Now 6.5 vs 10.5? Yeah that’s a deal breaker.

This is what we'll show whenever you publish anything on Kinja: > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 07/08/2020 at 16:06

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I prefer 0-100-0 times and the skidpad.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 07/08/2020 at 16:08

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Completely disagree... That new controversy over the 800HP Hellcat and whether the Limited Edition guys got screwed with the powertrain that will run 9s all day long?

I need a 9 second car to get to Whole Foods. Preferably in an SUV. And it definitely needs to out-run COVID and “peaceful demonstrators standing on my hood”.

/s/

Thomas Donohue > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 07/08/2020 at 16:09

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0-30 or 0-35 would be a good metric, or just show us the breakdown of all the distances/times.

Plenty of little electric cars (i.e. Fiat 500e) are pretty decent off the line, but by the time they hit 60 it’s 8 .5 seconds.

MrSnrub > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 07/08/2020 at 16:09

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Agreed for the most part. Low/mid-range torque is really important IMO - it makes cars that are really unimpressive on paper pretty decent in practice. It’s a big reason why I like turbos. I expected my sister’s 2018 Escape with the 1.5 turbo to be a slug, but in reality it was quite decent. On the other hand, I distinctly remember the naturally aspirated CX-5, which on paper is faster 0-60, feeling pretty slow.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 07/08/2020 at 16:09

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No need for rollout on 5-60 mph test.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > This is what we'll show whenever you publish anything on Kinja: 07/08/2020 at 16:09

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Slalom is even better than skidpad - is it still a standard test?

Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 07/08/2020 at 16:10

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UK car magazines up to the 90s or so used to always publish 30-70 time and also (for manuals)  30-70 time in top gear. Both of those are way more useful metrics IMO, as they represent overtaking capability. I dunno why they stopped...

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 07/08/2020 at 16:11

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Personally I've always enjoyed the 0-60-0 metric since it tests acceleration, mid range, and braking. 

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Thomas Donohue 07/08/2020 at 16:12

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0-35-0 is even better

This is what we'll show whenever you publish anything on Kinja: > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/08/2020 at 16:14

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That too! (Idk, probably just by mags)

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Thomas Donohue 07/08/2020 at 16:16

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Several magazines test and publish 0-30, 0-40, 0-50 as well.

But 0-60 (or 0-100km) gets all the headlines.

DucST3-Red-1Liter-Standing-By > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 07/08/2020 at 16:16

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Love my 500e for that reason, instant torque means you can hit ANY gap in traffic and embarrass unsuspecting cars off the line  

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 07/08/2020 at 16:17

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It’s n ot relevant anymore. The numbers are so small now that the line is really blurring. Honestly the only reason it’s around anymore IMO is for backwards compatibility.

Personally, I think acceleration measurements should be done by 1/4 mile, giving both ET and trap speed.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > This is what we'll show whenever you publish anything on Kinja: 07/08/2020 at 16:18

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Looks like MT does the figure 8 test now instead of slalom.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2020-corvette-c8-figure-eight-performance-vs-10-amazing-cars/

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > This is what we'll show whenever you publish anything on Kinja: 07/08/2020 at 16:20

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Steady-state G numbers are informative , but slalom tells you how well a car can change direction and still maintain control.

Nick Has an Exocet > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 07/08/2020 at 16:23

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I would love to see a more complete test.

( 0-60 time) + (5-45 time) + (40-80 time ) + (60 -100 time ) = total performance time, lower is better.

That covers l aunch, normal driving, fast merge, aero / outright speed.

Goggles Pizzano > Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen 07/08/2020 at 16:25

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Also, 30 r epresents the cornering speed at the bottom of the on-ramp, and 70 the speed at top to prepare to merge.

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > Nick Has an Exocet 07/08/2020 at 16:27

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C&D’s “Instrumented tests” cover these. That’s my go-to source for real world numbers

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a32903971/2020-porsche-911-carrera-s-manual-by-the-numbers/

Future next gen S2000 owner > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 07/08/2020 at 16:30

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Anything sub 4 seconds 0-60 doesn’t really matter to me. North of 4 seconds is useful for on ramps and whatnot but sub four, its basically all the same to me - stupid fast.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 07/08/2020 at 16:32

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Only in the supercar realm. It’s still very informative info on normal cars.

The latest Miata will do 60 in 5.7 seconds - not fast, but no slouch.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > DucST3-Red-1Liter-Standing-By 07/08/2020 at 16:33

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0-30: 2.8 seconds

Thomas Donohue > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/08/2020 at 16:35

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i remember seeing that in print back in the day (and maybe that info is still available for subscribers).....but these days you don’t get all the 0-20/30/40/etc stats.

Discerning > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 07/08/2020 at 16:36

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I look at 1/4 mile times and trap speed to get an idea of how quick something is stock.

I look at it because I know what feels slow to me. Anything under 100 mph feels a bit slow. That’ s pretty much my only constraint.

In the modified world, 1/4 et and trap still matter, but the people who take it to extremes often measure 60-130 times. Those people are, of course, largely delinquents.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/08/2020 at 16:40

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Even among normal cars that line is blurring. But leave that aside for a second... One of the main points of the supercar is how much quicker they car compared to normal cars. If you basically need two standards - one for normal cars and one for supercars - I’d say that 0-60 has outlived it’s usefulness. 1/4 mile measures both absolute acceleration and how that acceleration is achieved. Therefore, not only is it a better measurement for supercars because the gaps between cars will be bigger, but it both maintains the comparison between “super” and “normal” and allows you to get some insight into how a normal vehicle will FEEL to drive (based on the trap speed).

My $0.02

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Thomas Donohue 07/08/2020 at 16:44

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Yeah, and that’s a damn shame...

They’re clearly still recording it, but not sharing it as readily online. Can’t blame them, I guess.

R&T still provides this format in the magazine:

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 07/08/2020 at 16:45

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I agree. (says person who daily’s a 2.0 L mazda, 120 HP isuzu and a Subaru outback). 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Thomas Donohue 07/08/2020 at 16:46

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https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/road-tests/g25237153/2019-pcoty-testing/?slide=8

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 07/08/2020 at 16:58

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Yes, quarter mile is definitely better when it comes to high horsepower cars.

But that’s not going to stop the “holy shit” reaction when you hear about a car that can make 60 in less than 2 seconds...

But quarter mile is kind of useless info for most people (or so they think). It’s interesting to me and you, but for most drivers/buyers it’s easier for them to understand the 0-60 metric (especially since it’s been used in marketing for so long).

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/08/2020 at 17:15

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This is where the change needs to start happening. People will adjust over time from 2 seconds bring fast to 10 seconds bring fast. For example, being Canadian, my parents had to switch to metric units. They already knew and were accustomed to Imperial. Today, they will give the big reaction to “35 degree weather” being too hot rather than to cold.

IMO , the biggest problem is in it’s being used for so long, it’ll be hard to compare new and old cars without it.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 07/08/2020 at 17:27

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An issue with quarter mile is that people want to know how fast a car is off the line. With EVs, a car that’s very quick off the line may lose steam well before the 1/4 mile mark, while a heavier, high powered ICE car might lag a bit off the line, but then the power comes into play.

Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen > Goggles Pizzano 07/08/2020 at 18:18

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Very true. Though my experience of on-ramps is the limiting factor isn’t usually my car, it’s the little old lady in the Micra ahead of me.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/08/2020 at 18:39

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Forgot about EV’s. I’d argue that that’s where you get into ET vs Trap speed, but that’s perhaps a bit much for the basic “just give me a car” person. That said, that kind of person is likely just going to go for the lower number regardless of the standard. Or  maybe they actually test drive them to see how they feel, in which case... Good.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 07/08/2020 at 18:47

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It matters a lot less now than it used to given we live in an era where even the base Mustang does 0-60 in under 5.5 seconds.

But back in the 1990s and earlier when a 10 second 0-60 time was “pretty good”, it absolutely did matter.

It still matters today though given you still have some slow cars like the Chevy Spark that does 0-60 in 10.7 seconds and the Mitsubishi Mirage that does it in 12.

https://www.caranddriver.com/chevrolet/spark

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/mitsubishi/mirage/

Future next gen S2000 owner > Thomas Donohue 07/08/2020 at 19:07

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Some mags publish the breakdown of 0-60 at every ten mph. The downside of why they stuck with the 0-60 despite 0-30 being more relevant is surface grip. 0-30 is much more dependent on a good surface. Any reduction in grip manifests itself more in 0-30 versus a 0-60 time.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/08/2020 at 20:10

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I think King T meant 5-60 rolling. not sure how youd set up +1foot, when the car is rolling at 5mph. 

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 07/08/2020 at 23:00

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My favorite performance metrics , and ones that never get mentioned: how long do the tires last? How much do they cost to replace? How long do the brakes last? How much do they cost to replace?

Like a new GLE/GLS AMG, 43 or 63, you’re realistically getting 10-15k miles out of brakes and tires under normal driving and they can cost $2k for a set of tires with extremely limited options, and $1500+ per axle for pads and rotors.

F that. Even a GLC300 is usually chomping through it's OE tires in 20-25k, at $1200+ per set. Though aftermarket options are plentiful and will last longer and be cheaper if you about the stupid run flats.

Thomas Donohue > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/08/2020 at 23:20

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The 500e just barely missed out on the performance car of the year.

So close.  Especially in 0-22 mph!!!!

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Thomas Donohue 07/09/2020 at 09:31

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LOL